Scalfari: Pope Francis Told Me That Jesus Incarnate Was a “Man … Not at All a God”

Eugenio Scalfari claims that Pope Francis told him that Jesus was a "not at all a God."
Eugenio Scalfari (right) is the atheist editor and founder of the Italian newspaper La Republicca. This is Scalfari’s sixth interview with Pope Francis.

In the latest edition of La Repubblica, Pope Francis’ longtime atheist friend and interviewer, Eugenio Scalfari, claims that the Pope told him that once Jesus Christ became incarnate, he was a man, a “man of exceptional virtues” but “not at all a God.”

This is Scalfari’s sixth controversial interview with Pope Francis to-date. Scalfari directly quotes Pope Francis, as follows:

“Whoever has had, as I have happened several times, the luck of meeting him and speaking to him with the utmost cultural confidence, knows that Pope Francis conceives Christ as Jesus of Nazareth, man, not God incarnate. Once incarnated, Jesus ceases to be a God and becomes a man until his death on the cross.”

Scalfari also claimed that Pope Francis told him that he was the “proof” that Jesus was “not a God at all”. Here is another excerpt from Scalfari’s article:

“Pope Francis said to me: ‘I am the proof that Jesus of Nazareth, once he became a man, though a man of exceptional virtues, was not a God at all.’”

An important thing to note with the recent Scalfari interview is that he implicitly claims that Pope Francis somehow believes in pantheism, or the belief that there are a multitude of “gods”.  According to Scalfari, the Pope told him that “once incarnated, Jesus ceases to be a God.” Isn’t Jesus Christ the Godthe Second Person of the Holy Trinity, the one True God?

Massive Global Media Coverage

On October 9, the whole world woke up to massive global news coverage of the controversial Scalfari interview.  A quick Google search on the morning right after the interview was published shows that more than 42,000 articles have already been published about this recent Scalfari interview.  Millions of people have already read the incredible claim that the sitting Vicar of Christ actually denies that Jesus is God.

Tens of thousands of articles have already been published, covering Scalfari’s latest controversial interview with the Pope.


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Vatican “Denial”

The Holy See Press Office’s director, Matteo Bruni, issued the following official response to Scalfari’s report: 

“As already stated on other occasions, the words that Dr. Eugenio Scalfari attributes in quotation marks to the Holy Father during conversations with him cannot be considered as a faithful account of what has actually been said, but rather represent a personal and free interpretation of what he has heard, as is quite evident from what has been written today about the divinity of Jesus Christ.”

The Interview Did Take Place

There are some important things to note with the Vatican denial. First, it implicitly admits that the interview did actually take place.  This is already Scalfari’s six interview with the Pope. In each instance, the Vatican or the Pope has never denied that the interviews take place. In fact, some of the interviews were even published on the Vatican website, and they have been occasionally published by the Vatican publishing house (LEV) itself.  

Could Scalfari have actually just made this all up?

The Vatican’s official statement of denial actually answers that question. That is simply not the case. The Vatican has officially admitted that the interview did take place. 

Another point to note is that this is the sixth interview with Scalfari.  The Vatican, in all instances, have admitted that the interviews did take place.

The Vatican, nor the Pope, Never Denied the Content

Another key point to note is that in the Vatican’s official note, they never explicitly denied the key contents of the interview. This is an unprecedented interview in human history: for the first time in history, we have a journalist claiming that a sitting Pope told him that “Jesus was not a God.”

Such a heretical and blasphemous claim needs to be clearly and unequivocally denied by the Vatican. Adding a simple statement like this would have been absolutely necessary given the mind-blowing ramifications of this claim: “The Catholic Church, and the Pope, affirms that Jesus is God made man, the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity.” 

Instead, the global media is free to proclaim to the whole world that “Pope Francis denies Jesus’ divinity”.

Why would Pope Francis continue speaking to Scalfari?

The key question is: Why would the Pope continue to speak with an atheist journalist who keeps attributing to him blasphemous and heretical positions? 

If the Pope wanted to prevent the unfortunate situation of the world’s global media screaming headlines like “Pope denies divinity of Jesus Christ”, the solution is quite simple: stop being interviewed by Scalfari, ban him publicly from interviews with him, and publicly castigate him for “misquoting” him.

Instead, the interviews continue to happen, and seem to be perfectly timed to coincide with major events of the Church. For example, a day before Good Friday, Scalfari claimed that Pope Francis “abolished hell”. This particular interview was perfectly timed to coincide with the start of the Amazon Synod.

The Solution: An Official Papal Denial

The only solution to this massive controversy is quite simple: An official statement from Pope Francis.  The Pope can make any of the following statements:

  1. The Pope can publicly claim that while he was indeed interviewed by Scalfari, he was dramatically misquoted. He can then proceed to affirm in his statement the timeless Truth and teaching of the Catholic Church that Jesus Christ is True God and True Man.
  2. If the interview did not really take place, then the Pope can also publicly state that the interview never really happened, and that Scalfari fabricated everything – including all the other five previous interviews which were also controversial.

Finally, the Pope can publicly say that while Scalfari is a good friend, he is from hereon officially banned from interviewing Pope Francis in an official capacity, and that he would not be granted any official Papal audience or interview from here on out.

Unless any of the above takes place, millions worldwide will be left in grave confusion, their Faith in the divinity of Jesus Christ shaken to the core.

by Paul Simeon


Editor’s Note: The interview, originally published in Italian on October 9, sits behind a paywall. Below is a screenshot of the side by side Italian-English Google Translation of the relevant portions of the interview.


    1. John 8:44
      Ye are of your father the devil,and the lust of your father ye will do.He was a murderer from the beginning,abode not in truth,because their is no truth in him,When he speaketh a lie,he speaketh of his own :for he is a liar,and the father of it.
      ( Very clear this verses written in the Holy Bible KJV. refers to the anti-cbrist which their pope and all who denied that Our Dearest Jesus Christ is NOT GOD).

    2. 1John 4:1-4
      Dear friends,(A) do not believe every spirit,(B) but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.(C) 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh(D) is from God,(E) 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist,(F) which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.(G)

  1. This should not come as a surprise. Bergolio is a mason. He is luciferian.
    Please listen to fulton sheen radio sermon 26 jan. 1947 .

  2. The Paganism involved in the Amazon Synod attests the facts.
    The story of the Judas Goat seems prophetically reworking

    1. The interviewer has far more credibility, thean the interviewed. Bergolio usually gives no answer at all, so no one can pin him down. He only tries to
      cover his donky.

    2. However, PF Claims to know him well. They are old friends. And he allows these interviews to take place and to be published. He does not correct the supposed lies – if that is what you were thinking they are – and, claims to know him well. They are old friends. And he allows these in to views to take place and to be published. He does not correct the supposed lies – if that is what you were thinking they are – and, using Vatican statements, PF does not even deny them or disown them. Lastly, although he has the opportunity, he does not offer correct church teaching to counteract it, so that the faithful are not misled. And this is not the first time it has happened, so it is not like PF was taken by surprise and didn’t know what to do or was that a loss for words. These heresies are dropped deliberately through unofficial means- so that he cannot be accused of heresy, but they are allowed to spread and fester So they do the damage anyway.

  3. Jesus was not devine, but pachamama is. Pachamama has been thrown
    in the tiber. Mabe it is time to throw pachapapa in the sewer. Heresy syncretism, apostesy, has come from this papacy. Everything must be respected, except traditional catholisism. Those who still do not see who and
    what bergolio is, is just as lost as he is.

    1. Yes, they are lost but we must have compassion on them. If it were not for the grace of God, we might be standing with them. Instead, we have been chosen to see and to do the present sacrifices necessary to help our brothers and sisters to see and accept The truth through A Great Deception -in these difficult times

      1. Like the old saying goes, it looks, smells, waddels and quacks like a duck. When someone insists it is something else, then it might be wiser
        to deal with people who are ignorant, and not with people, that are stubborn and stupid. I continue to pray for bergolio, but i also call him the evil jerk that he is, because he is stubborn, but not stupid.

      2. Yes Bergoglio is not to be reasoned with. He is to be prayed for (and preferably from a distance). The ignorant need our prayers, help and compassion. Our Love; they are our neighbours and we are asked to love them as we would, ourselves.

  4. Now bergolio says, that jesus did not rise from the dead, but rather it was just
    a spirit. What i have sai all along is now proven. Bergolio is neither catholic nor cristian. Why did he not abandon the catholic church a long time ago? The only answer to that question is: he is doing, what his mesonic brethern
    wanted him to do, namely destroy the church from within. The only question is: is he the false prophet or is he himself the anti christ.

  5. I understand your concern but as bad as he looks and is, he is not the AC. A log of people conjecture with their human understanding. God has revealed and answered these questions already. For it is written, “ Indeed He (God) does nothing, without revealing it first through His Prophets.”
    The AC is worse than the false prophet who precedes and secretly works with him. Both are under Satan’s influence. Do not fooled for the AC will fool so many. Stay alert. The FP will welcome him into the church and applaud the AC. Plenty more info at

  6. Once again listen to fulton sheens radio sermon from 26 january 1947. Things
    are not all that clean cut and dry.

  7. Now a new temple will be built in abu dabai, where jews, christians and
    moslems shuld worship together. Another diabolicol plan of bergolios. Our
    lady of fatima gave us clear warning of bergolio. Unfolding in front our own
    eyes is the coming of the purification. When i return, will i find any faith left?
    God help us.

    1. negative opinion destroys harmony among us Catholics, allow first PF himself say his piece about the matter.

  8. Pope Francis doesn’t even know what he believes in. Let’s be honest here. 20 years we believed all the bull the Catholic church told us but not today. The writtings are on the wall. This guys bow in front of status, he kisses his pentacles, he believes we all will go to the same God. The preaching of Satan that he’s doing won’t succeed. Remember Nicodemus; was a massive teacher in Jerusalem but didn’t know the things from above. He Francis can blind his fellow Catholic. We went out of that tomb long time ago.

  9. The bible says those who deny the Son does not have both the Father and the Holy Spirit
    Jesus said I you deny me I will also deny you before My Father who is in heaven.

  10. I like your website, but I did a comment to another article and you didn’t post it. And I just spent time typing a comment in support of the messages to Maria Divine Mercy, and you deleted it. So I give up!

  11. It was said ceases which meant that before He was but stopped when He incarnated until His death on the cross. Thus, Jesus is still god and man.

  12. let the Holy Spirit guide us.Scalferi is an atheist.If you believed in divine creation,who will you trust,an atheist or a pope ?

  13. The statement (Barth 1964:64) ‘conceived by the Holy Ghost’ is a general statement that ‘… the human existence of Jesus Christ … has its origin immediately in God, and is therefore immediately God’s own existence’. The formula ‘born of the Virgin Mary’ makes the general statement that Jesus Christ ‘…

    I believe in God, the Father almighty,
    creator of heaven and earth.

    I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
    who was conceived by the Holy Spirit-WHO WAS CONCEIVED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
    and born of the virgin Mary.
    He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died, and was buried;
    he descended to hell.
    The third day he rose again from the dead.
    He ascended to heaven
    and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
    From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

    I believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the holy catholic* church,
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body,
    and the life everlasting. Amen.


    Sumasampalataya ako sa Diyos Amang makapangyarihan sa lahat, na may gawa ng langit at lupa.
    Sumasampalataya naman ako kay Hesukristo, iisang Anak ng Diyos, Panginoon nating lahat.
    Nagkatawang tao Siya lalang ng Espiritu Santo,[NAGKATAWANG TAO SYA LALANG NG ESPIRITU SANTO] ipinanganak ni Santa Mariang Birhen.
    Pinagpakasakit ni Poncio Pilato, ipinako sa krus, namatay, inilibing.
    Nanaog sa karoroonan ng mga yumao. Nang may ikatlong araw nabuhay na mag-uli.
    Umakyat sa langit, naluluklok sa kanan ng Diyos Amang Makapangyarihan sa lahat.
    Doon magmumulang paririto’t maghuhukom sa nangabubuhay at nangamamatay na tao.
    Sumasampalataya naman ako sa Diyos Espiritu Santo,
    Sa Banal na Simbahang Katolika, sa kasamahan ng mga banal;
    Sa kapatawaran ng mga kasalanan, Sa pagkabuhay na mag-uli ng nangamatay na tao,
    At sa buhay na walang hanggan. Amen.

    Q. What does it mean that he ‘was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary’?

    A. That the eternal Son of God, who is and remains true and eternal God, took to himself, through the working of the Holy Spirit, from the flesh and blood of the virgin Mary, A TRULY HUMAN NATURE so that he might also become David’s true descendant, like his brothers and sisters in every way except for sin.

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